AMERICAN LEFT HISTORY

This space is dedicated to the proposition that we need to know the history of the struggles on the left and of earlier progressive movements here and world-wide. If we can learn from the mistakes made in the past (as well as what went right) we can move forward in the future to create a more just and equitable society. We will be reviewing books, CDs, and movies we believe everyone needs to read, hear and look at as well as making commentary from time to time. Greg Green, site manager

Thursday, June 25, 2015

Once Again- All Honor To The Waldensian Heretics! (Or For Sticklers Followers Of Peter Waldo)- A Smidgen Of Justice Finally!

Once Again- All Honor To The Waldensian Heretics! (Or For Sticklers Followers Of Peter Waldo)- A Smidgen Of Justice Finally!

Sometimes in the cyberspace, the blogosphere, hell, maybe in life you can’t win. Recently, very recently, I posted a short mention in this space honoring the old time formerly heretical grouping persecuted, no more than persecuted, almost exterminated by the Roman Catholic Church, the Waldensians (alternatively Waldenese which is the way they were presented in Western Civ class and which I like better since Waldensian makes me think they might be followers of Henry David Thoreau, a different kind of Protestant later or even better so nobody can mistake them, followers of the pious 12^th century ex-merchant Peter Waldo although that Waldo part has problems too). To make some kind of historical amends (although as far as I know no dough from the Vatican coffers) the Roman Catholic Church’s leader, Pope Francis, had asked, maybe begged for all I know since he did it in foreign language (not English anyway) and his gestures may be subject to some differences of interpretation, the small scattered Waldensese community of formerly heretical “premature” Protestants for forgiveness. Particularly for the egregious acts a 15^th century former pope’s bull (that is what they call the thing when the pope orders something done, or not done, I am not making it up or trying to be sarcastic so do not sent comments on this please), get this Innocent VIII by name, telling every true believer in the apostolic works of the Church to smite them down like vermin. And they did.

Here is where I got into trouble or rather in two types of trouble from a couple of separate commenters who got hot under the collar about how they interpreted what I said as a some kind of “smack down” of the Roman Church and/or its leader (the word one commenter actually used as in “smacked down Pope Francis”). This from a person who said she was a “lapsed Catholic” whatever that is, and as if that was some kind of talisman for what she accused me of doing.

The reason for that negative comment was that I had mentioned that this Roman Catholic Church, or rather its bureaucracy, is a little slow on the uptake when it comes to trying to right various crimes in its long and sometimes seedy past although I notice they zip right along with this making saints out of whole cloth business especially of former popes. Take Galileo and his simple proposition that the earth was not flat and that the earth went around the sun like we all learned in about second grade. It took another bull ( I think) a few years back to get the Church to recognize that maybe Galileo was right or at least they should have treated him better.

Now comes the case of the Waldenese, a small grouping not doing anything to hurt mighty Rome back in the days from about the 12^th to the 16^th century when they had plenty to say in Europe and elsewhere about who was to believe in what doctrine or face what kind of hell on earth at the stake for their misbegotten ways. Maybe Rome was a little off from its glory “caesaro-papist” days but they could put serious hurt on dissenters, no question. Now a few centuries later all is forgiven. At that rate serious current “errors” like the dive the Vatican took on trying to save the Jews during World War II or more recently the sexual ravaging of their innocent youth by very disturbed and nasty priests should be “rectified” by some Pope Innocent LXIII sometime after 2400. So, no, I did not “smack down” the current pope but just stated what was what.

The more serious comment, or at least I took it more seriously, was one of cultural relativism I suppose. The commenter a “non-lapsed Catholic” from what I could gather blasted me (at least he did not use the ‘smack down” term, mercifully) for putting today’s standard of religious tolerance back to that time, a time when the Church was in danger from every corner. You could not have a group, even an isolated group not bothering anybody whom Rome saw as a threat doing whatever they pleased. This thought is what galled the commenter most when I wrote “Get this too though Waldo and his gang thought that everybody would be just as well off if there was not a clergy separate from the congregation, that everybody could be a priest (maybe women too?). And you wonder why Rome had the stakes piled up high and the flames on big time.” He went off about the need for a clergy to mediate between God and the congregation, that the mediation should be by a man since the original followers (of Jesus) were men, and indiscriminate giving of alms and other such communal actions were, well, “communistic.” So you can see where he was going.

Look I suggested that everybody who was interested check with the very informative article in the on-line Wikipedia if you didn’t have time to go to the library (or the expense of ordering a book on the subject from Amazon) to brush up on exactly what these people were up to and why Rome’s nose got bent out of shape about the matter. It is usually fruitless to argue religion but a doctrine of giving alms to the poor, leading a simple life, having the religious ceremony done in the vernacular, buying into the idea of the priesthood of all believers, giving up of the ceremonial body and blood (bread and wine) idea (called transubstantiation, I think) and forgetting about that Church raking in the dough money-maker purgatory look very simple, look very pre-organized Church to me. So cultural relativism or not that Catholic commenter seems to have missed out on the Reformation, maybe more. I’ll stick with old Waldo on this one.

Here is the original post and you decide whether I was being blasphemous, sacrilegious, or a heathen:

You have probably heard the news lately that the Roman Catholic Church’s Pope Francis has asked the Waldenese community of hearty and alive irreverent Protestants to accept the church’s forgiveness for attempting to exterminate their forbears in the late 15^th century by order of the then pope, get this, Pope Innocent VIII (eight, right). And they almost succeeded, with now a small remnant still living in small enclaves in various spots around the world. By the way doing nobody harm just like when they were started by a renegade merchant named, well, Waldo, who thought that piety, poverty and doing good works were worthy endeavors. Get this too though Waldo and his gang thought that everybody would be just as well off if there was not a clergy separate from the congregation, that everybody could be a priest (maybe women too?). And you wonder why Rome had the stakes piled up high and the flames on big time. Well, I know everybody studied this group in Western History class in passing, I know I did, as precursors of the Protestant Reformation and martyrs to the cause of enlightenment so I will just leave a link to Wikipedia on the subject for you to look at-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waldensians

Here is my problem though and maybe not so much a reflection on the current pope as on the church bureaucracy and inertia but isn’t several hundred years later for forgiveness and reconciliation in the case of Galileo just a little too late to do those fallen martyrs any good. What took so long? This may be a Tweeter Pope but you guys have got to push harder to come into the 18^th century, the age of enlightenment. Okay.